Comments on: Nostalgiapocalypse: Save the Castle, Screw the Princess http://nukezilla.com/2009/12/04/nostalgiapocalypse-save-the-castle-screw-the-princess/ because the games we love could be better Fri, 25 May 2012 04:28:08 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Controllersaurushttp://nukezilla.com/2009/12/04/nostalgiapocalypse-save-the-castle-screw-the-princess/#comment-23787 Controllersaurus Sun, 06 Dec 2009 11:07:53 +0000 http://negativegamer.com/?p=5514#comment-23787 The actual act required no leap of faith nor logic. You are an undercover agent amoung terrorists, no mroe narrative is disclosed within that level than that. The prefix and aftermath of the mission are what became plot holes not the actual act itself. If you considered it a game of duck hunt than I don't think it particually matters how tacful or emotionally driven the level was...the meaning would have been lost on you. The actual act required no leap of faith nor logic. You are an undercover agent amoung terrorists, no mroe narrative is disclosed within that level than that. The prefix and aftermath of the mission are what became plot holes not the actual act itself. If you considered it a game of duck hunt than I don’t think it particually matters how tacful or emotionally driven the level was…the meaning would have been lost on you.

]]> By: Velvet Fist, Iron Glovehttp://nukezilla.com/2009/12/04/nostalgiapocalypse-save-the-castle-screw-the-princess/#comment-23785 Velvet Fist, Iron Glove Sun, 06 Dec 2009 10:50:53 +0000 http://negativegamer.com/?p=5514#comment-23785 @ControllersaurusI think your reasoning falls down there. If the player has not had enough context to role play as a character, then they should be expected to play according to how they personally feel. And in doing so it is entirely reasonable for them to want to be able to shoot the terrorists instead of the civilians.Everyone fills in gaps in a story with their own imagination, but when the gaps are so large as to require immense leaps of faith or illogic, they become "plot holes", and the author has a risk of losing the audience's suspension of disbelief. The holes around the "No Russian" story are large and numerous enough that when I played it I (as a player) had no reason to care about my character, or Makarov's men, or even the civilians in the airport. It just became a big game of duck hunt, trying to shoot the targets before they went away. And the final end for my character became equally meaningless. Was that the point? For the player to feel nothing for any of the characters? @Controllersaurus

I think your reasoning falls down there. If the player has not had enough context to role play as a character, then they should be expected to play according to how they personally feel. And in doing so it is entirely reasonable for them to want to be able to shoot the terrorists instead of the civilians.

Everyone fills in gaps in a story with their own imagination, but when the gaps are so large as to require immense leaps of faith or illogic, they become “plot holes”, and the author has a risk of losing the audience’s suspension of disbelief. The holes around the “No Russian” story are large and numerous enough that when I played it I (as a player) had no reason to care about my character, or Makarov’s men, or even the civilians in the airport. It just became a big game of duck hunt, trying to shoot the targets before they went away. And the final end for my character became equally meaningless. Was that the point? For the player to feel nothing for any of the characters?

]]> By: Controllersaurushttp://nukezilla.com/2009/12/04/nostalgiapocalypse-save-the-castle-screw-the-princess/#comment-23775 Controllersaurus Sun, 06 Dec 2009 03:06:47 +0000 http://negativegamer.com/?p=5514#comment-23775 @<a href="#comment-23770" rel="nofollow">Velvet Fist, Iron Glove</a>: By the role being thrust upon the player without context or prior time to create an empathetic relationship with the character, you are able to watch the scene as a horrific act that somebody had to do. If a long build up lead to the eventual massacre taking place and his death, you as a player wouldn't feel as adverse to the scene, instead you would grieve for your personal loss/investment rather than the hundreds of civilians. The point of the level was to alienate your feelings and what you speak of is the polar opposite of that... to take your emotions into consideration. Also I didn't say every character in a game is removed from the player (Bioware wouldn't exist if it was) it’s just in most cases your character has their own personality and background. @Velvet Fist, Iron Glove:
By the role being thrust upon the player without context or prior time to create an empathetic relationship with the character, you are able to watch the scene as a horrific act that somebody had to do. If a long build up lead to the eventual massacre taking place and his death, you as a player wouldn’t feel as adverse to the scene, instead you would grieve for your personal loss/investment rather than the hundreds of civilians. The point of the level was to alienate your feelings and what you speak of is the polar opposite of that… to take your emotions into consideration. Also I didn’t say every character in a game is removed from the player (Bioware wouldn’t exist if it was) it’s just in most cases your character has their own personality and background.

]]> By: Velvet Fist, Iron Glovehttp://nukezilla.com/2009/12/04/nostalgiapocalypse-save-the-castle-screw-the-princess/#comment-23770 Velvet Fist, Iron Glove Sun, 06 Dec 2009 01:47:36 +0000 http://negativegamer.com/?p=5514#comment-23770 “The avatar you are bestowed isn’t just an empty emotionless shell waiting for your opinion to occupy it. Your character has been a part of their world a lot longer than you have and it’s this that is so hard for some to understand. … I can’t empathise with their feelings at all. You as a player are a CIA undercover agent; you have been trained and briefed that this massacre will save many more lives. Whether as a person you would shoot them or not is irrelevant because you are not a CIA undercover agent.”The person playing the game is not just an empty formless actor waiting to take on the role they are presented with. A game designer cannot impose a role on the player, they have to lead the player there, with the player willingly following. “No Russian” was terrible game writing because the player was most definitely *not* a CIA undercover agent; they had the role imposed on them without the game designer giving the player appropriate prior context and guiding them into your described frame of mind. “The avatar you are bestowed isn’t just an empty emotionless shell waiting for your opinion to occupy it. Your character has been a part of their world a lot longer than you have and it’s this that is so hard for some to understand.
…
I can’t empathise with their feelings at all. You as a player are a CIA undercover agent; you have been trained and briefed that this massacre will save many more lives. Whether as a person you would shoot them or not is irrelevant because you are not a CIA undercover agent.”

The person playing the game is not just an empty formless actor waiting to take on the role they are presented with. A game designer cannot impose a role on the player, they have to lead the player there, with the player willingly following. “No Russian” was terrible game writing because the player was most definitely *not* a CIA undercover agent; they had the role imposed on them without the game designer giving the player appropriate prior context and guiding them into your described frame of mind.

]]> By: Glassninjahttp://nukezilla.com/2009/12/04/nostalgiapocalypse-save-the-castle-screw-the-princess/#comment-23759 Glassninja Sat, 05 Dec 2009 19:03:20 +0000 http://negativegamer.com/?p=5514#comment-23759 Loved this piece. Perhaps it was because I was because I was younger then, full of the vivid imagination that childhood bestows, but I always used to love the games where everything wasn't explicitly laid out for me as well. The game didn't tell me all the backstory or all the little intricate details, so I was free to make up whatever I wanted concerning my character's motive, personality, etc.Those were the days. Loved this piece. Perhaps it was because I was because I was younger then, full of the vivid imagination that childhood bestows, but I always used to love the games where everything wasn’t explicitly laid out for me as well. The game didn’t tell me all the backstory or all the little intricate details, so I was free to make up whatever I wanted concerning my character’s motive, personality, etc.

Those were the days.

]]> By: superd1984http://nukezilla.com/2009/12/04/nostalgiapocalypse-save-the-castle-screw-the-princess/#comment-23750 superd1984 Sat, 05 Dec 2009 15:15:49 +0000 http://negativegamer.com/?p=5514#comment-23750 I think what you speak of may just be a question of taste in storytelling. Some people may be irritated by the lack of perceived information.I completely agree with the idea of allowing your actions to be determind and justified in some respect by the character you have control of. I even take his thinking somewhat into FIFA10 online team play which may be a bit too far ;)Good read. I think what you speak of may just be a question of taste in storytelling. Some people may be irritated by the lack of perceived information.

I completely agree with the idea of allowing your actions to be determind and justified in some respect by the character you have control of. I even take his thinking somewhat into FIFA10 online team play which may be a bit too far ;)

Good read.

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