This is old news man. Nobody’s posted here, for like, two days.

Yes and your not bias at all.
Your an idiot for one and you dont know what your talking about.

2nd, the reason people were expecting the SDK was because Valve told the comunity it would be released within a few weeks of the release of l4d.

3rd, If Valve doesnt respect the people who are giving them there money, they’re gonna go out of bussiness. Valve makes a good amount of cash bcuz the gaming comunity respects them and there games.

4th, the reason so many people are mad is bcuz they were expecting more content to be release after the launch of l4d1, like tf2. Alot of people didn’t think this game was worth $50 (after all it only had 4maps) but Valve promised more content after the release of the title. So what happend was alot of people went out and bought the game, expecting new content to be released later on… Now we hear that were going to have to spend another $50 to get this content, when Valve told us we would get free content (Maps, Weapons, Monsters and so on).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQWylFmqnwM

Now personally i don’t care if they charged us 20-30 dollars for l4d2 as an expansion pack because I PERSONALY got my monies worth out of the title (something like 200hours) But i feel sorry for the people who were lied to, and thought there would be new content and went out and bought the game believing this. Anyways back to the point, there is no way i will pay full price for this, when it was promised to be free.

But ill look at it from a bussiness point of view and i can see that Valve is a company and needs to make revenue, but theres no way this should be released as a full fledged game, when its just an expanision pack; Its exactly like l4d1, with added maps and weapons. If Valve isn’t willing to release this for free, this should at the very most, be released as an expansion pack becuase thats all it is.

I would buy it.

The reason companies answer to their consumers, is a very basic principle. No consumers = no company. Less consumers = less money for company.

Glad I could present this basic elementary concept of economics to you. Please feel free to respond back with any other questions on how the world functions.

If you pay a contractor to build you a house, the contractor puts up 4 walls, puts a roof on it, some doors and windows even, the house is now fully functional (to some extent)
2 months laters the contractor returns and installs a kitchen, or bathroom or whatever. Now that would make you angry right, having to wait 2 months to get more functionality out of your house?
Then the contractor does not return to finish your house and he says ‘Oh I’m sorry but we’ve just begun building a new house so we won’t continue on yours, but your more then welcome to buy our new house’

Basically that’s all valve did, they gave us a functional product (to some extent) later they added a little bit more functionality (which I wouldn’t call DLC, it was a lot of bug fixes, finally able to play the other 2 campaigns on versus (something the community already fixed btw with their own patch, an addition of 1(!) new map, and 15 already in the game with different encoding (survival mode) that didn’t even took that much effort to make)

Then valve announces a sequel, which they justify by saying ‘well we actually put so much content in this, we can’t call it DLC, it’s just to much’ content of which they previously claimed it would be added to the original game, so we can safely assume that valve is no longer planning on putting said content in the original, what kind of a company would support a game they already are developing a sequel for, not to mention that any idea’s they had are already put into that sequel.

The community feels that the original game was just a beta, that valve made us pay for, it was a beta-test to see how people would like they game and where they could improve. Now months later they announce a sequel with all the content valve claimed with go into the original as DLC plus changes made to the game by suggestions from the community.

Now please tell me I am wrong, but that’s pretty much how it really is, also taking into account that how fast valve started developing this sequel, valve normally takes time for stuff like that, remember how long we had to wait for a sequel to half-life?

I’m not opting for free content, valve made a lot of effort, and I’m willing to pay, but not the price of a full-game! and I believe I have the right to think that since the original wasn’t a full game.

And just take a look at left 4 dead 2, what did they really add? They patched the AI director to make the replay value last longer, they add some weapons, change the look of characters, make a campaign with REAL stories, change some music, change night to daylight, and they add a few new special infected (which in my opinion is done to balance versus) either all things valve intended as DLC for the original or suggestions from the community.

Even valve’s statement ‘this is to much content to release it as DLC’ strikes me as odd, it’s almost like saying, we also feel left 4 dead 1 lakced content, so we made a whole lot more, but to much to just give it to you, well no problem, make it an expansion then, graphics haven’t change so it should be fully compitabel with each other, pay about 25-30 dollars and everything is ok.

now, my nvidia card, geforce 9600gt wich costs around $100 i payed like $400 an entire base salary, my entire computer costed r$2000. my salary is more than the base i get 3 base salaries wich is r$1200, but to keep my internet and my car car i spend almost all of it coz everithing here is so expensive and still i love games.

thats why wen theres some games thats worth to play only once and its offline, i just download it. yeah im not afraid to say it, coz these companies has no representatives here, so we gota buy on dollar and the price tags always comes doubled or tripled a playstation 3 game costs r$150 each and hence only a few has it around here, u gota be rich to spend r$150 on crappy games like assasins creed and FEAR 2.

so, i used to play counter strike, then team fortress, i payed for all those, coz they are good games that worth my investiment, coz of all updates and the multplayer support(i can only have a good online experience with the original ones)and i mcan get updates faster than with a pirated version, yeah that worke with team fortress, but not with l4d, since the updates were only few, the pirated version was on par with the original one, and all the ppl who hadnt payed r$100 played the same content as me using the garena service, it sux doesnt it?

and now they come with this idiotized version of the game? with idiotic characters, and idiotic music and suposedly containing all the updates and stuff that convinced me to spend r$100 on left for dead?

no way, not again, this time im gona play it on garena, coz i doubt ill be playing such an idiotized game for long, ill end up playing l4d1 again, and stay with it.

now, i really think thats not valves fault, it Micro$ofts fault, it will be the first valve game to come to x360 b4 pc version, and they didnt anounced l4d2 for pc yet, dont u see? the game is idiotized to attend the taste of consoles casual idiotic gamers, that has happened to elder scrolls 4 dont u remember? morrowind was a fully fledged rpg for hardcore gamers, but oblivion is an idiotized game for dumb ppl to play, and these are the console casual players.

fuck M$.

I paid $50 (which is $100 here) for this game knowing that more would be added on to it. Weapon’s, maps, maybe even a game mode? As promised by valve, but we got no updates, well no real updates.

I pay $50 for a game like Call of Duty 4, because aside from its great multiplayer it also has an extensive single player campaign. Not to mention everything has been built from scratch.

Another example is Half-Life 2, because aside from its great single player it comes with Counter-Strike: Source and Half-Life 2: Deathmatch multiplayer. Both great games.

Left 4 Dead is a cut down game, keeping it simple like Team Fotress 2, multiplayer only (well practically it is). It isnt very complex. Every level may look a bit different but there is still the same basic principals, small number of creatures and guns. To me this is worth $20 like TF2 but definitly not $50.

The bottom line (wether you agree with it or not) i feel ripped off, i feel tricked into buying a game which is seemingly only 1/2 completed for the price of a fully completed game.

To me its the same as a sales person telling me that im buying a 1TB HDD and charging me for it and then giving me a 500GB deliberately. In real life you’d give it right back and never shop there again.

Note that I never once denied Valve made these claims. In fact, I fully acknowledged that they did the whole freaking time. That was never the point. Now you’re just making stuff up.

Seriously dude, did you even bother to read anything I said? If not, you really don’t have any right to go around calling me ignorant do you; considering you yourself would be ignorant on the subject. If you did bother to read it then you are either just building a straw-man argument or just don’t comprehend what you read “quite frankly”.

Which is it?

In this case I think we’ll have to agree to disagree my friend. In your opinion the concerns are valid, in mine they are not.

Well, you think our protest is based on invalid basis and because of that you are saying we are whiners. Like I said, those concerns raised by the protest group are quite valid. Just because you don’t agree doesn’t make the basis invalid. That’s all I’ve said. That’s all from me.

You don’t make any sense. Notice that in all the posts on this subject, never once did i say you couldn’t protest. In fact, quite the opposite.

All I said was that in my OPINION your buddy’s OPINION is an OPINION and not based on FACT. Also, that your OPINION is silly. Therefore my OPINION of your argument is not IGNORANT because this is what ignorant means:

1. lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact
2. uninformed; unaware.

Obviously I am not ignorant as I am fully aware of your reasons, i just disagree with them. The only ignorance here is your ignorance of what ignorant means. Which I have just corrected for you.

Read and comprehend.

And regarding your last point: 20,000 people clicking “join group” does not validity make. Millions of people buy Britney Spears albums, doesn’t mean the music is good now does it?

That being said, I doubt there will be any real result from their petition. Signing a petition is one thing but once that game is on store shelves we’re in a different situation entirely. At that point you’re talking about individuals who desire a specific product that isn’t available from another source (no pun intended). I’m as irritated as anyone by Valve’s lack of support for L4D1 compared to other titles but chances are i’ll be buying L4D2 on day one. I don’t owe Valve anything and ultimately, they don’t owe anything to me. If they make a product i want to buy and i can afford it, everything else becomes insignificant.

This goes to a broader problem with consumer advocacy in the videogame industry. A boycott of one product with a direct competitor can be highly effective because it doesn’t demand a sacrifice from the consumer. I can turn my back on Coke, buy Pepsi and still be drinking Cola. I can’t turn my back on Valve and still play an equivalent game to Left4Dead.

Each release of the Call of Duty series has been quite mediocre compared with the first game. Whereas Valve’s titles are all solid games (well L4D leaves a lot to be desired thus far).

I love Valve for what they are and love seeing them do well. I don’t want to see them become the next EA hammering the same titles year after year.

Also, consider that in some of the interviews from around the release of the original (Gabe Newell and Doug Lombardi, notably), they mention that customers can expect the “usual” Valve support.

I think that their previously held reputation of providing long-term support combined with their promise for doing just that with Left 4 Dead is a perfectly justified reason for many users to no longer support Valve, including speaking out against them. It’s called accountability.

Valve forgot one of the primary guidelines of business: it’s far more difficult to earn a new customer than it is to keep a current customer.

Essentially Valve has probably damaged the sales potential of the first game from here on out by announcing L4D2, as many people will sit on the fence. Why buy an abandoned product now for $40, when you can get the next version for $50 in a few months?

I don’t know why the SDK has taken this long to realease. They have been working with the Source engine for about 5 years now, and they obviously used some toolsets to make the “movie” levels that shipped with the game.

Also, why does the release of one quarter of games per year coincide with the holiday buying season. Why does Call of Duty coincide the with holiday buying season. That just seems like an irrelevant arguement to me.

However, this isn’t “any ol’ game company”, this is Valve, the company which has been providing free monthly major content patches for most of its games for the over ten years I’ve supported them. With Left 4 Dead, the price tag was very high and the content was very low. In fact, many reviews of the original title made that very claim (something like “even with the variation put forth by the A.I. director, you’re still playing the same four campaigns over and over”).

Knowing this, I still purchased the game, confident that Valve would provide major content releases. I can honestly say that if it had been any other game company, it would have been very unlikely for me to make this purchase (at least until I could get a substantial discount on it). By announcing the sequel, and virtually ending development on the original title far short of my expectations, Valve has effectively tried to cash in on the trust they’ve earned over the years. If you don’t believe this is a “cash in” move, then why is the release timed perfectly to coincide with the holiday buying season?

As for the people upset that there is a group out there boycotting a product that they are interested in, grow up. Valve are big boys, they can handle a little consumer strife. They’re not going to go out of business or cancel all future development of one of their most popular franchises. Comparisons to terrorism in this very thread, really!? The boycott community is acting in an appropriate and civil manner. The work they are doing right now might get you a smaller price tag on the game you’re looking forward to most, or maybe prevent it from sinking to the mediocrity of being an annual franchise.

We’re dealing with Valve. When was the last time something they promised actually got released on time? By the same token, when was the last time they wilfully screwed over their customers and fans?